Curse

Winterclaw · Jun 07, 2010, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Sojar

Correct dear sir. However, in WoW, they are not repeatable at all by the same character.

However, PvP only players only have access to the PvP daily, ergo, they should be able to repeat it for the same rewards as PvEers.

Are you talking about on the same day? I don't see a green ! to repeat missions or bounties on the same day, dunno about PvP because I generally don't do that anymore. Repeatable dailies for pvp is ok I suppose since PvP is supposed to be the endgame in GW. I mean this isn't WoW so the people at ANet have the right to adapt it anyway they see fit.

jimbo32 · Jun 07, 2010, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

It is a reward for PvP'ers who do not enjoy playing PvE to get items. Making it once per character would just have people re-rolling pvp characters over and over again. wouldn't just slow down openingthe chest. pointless.

That sounds fine in theory. But what it actually has ended up being is this - a way for serious PvP'ers to make huge amounts of cash by gouging other players on equipment packs, tomes, etc. They are able to do this just by playing the formats that they normally play *anyway*. There's no drawback that I can see - they don't have to spend 20 minutes or more trekking to the arse-end of nowhere to reach a boss like Rotscale. The rewards come from normal play. The massive amounts of extra faction that can be gained from ZCombat is an extra bonus. (As an example, the GvG zcombat gives 1500g, 9k faction and 50 zcoins for winning one match. Ridiculous).

It's my opinion that the Z mission and bounties should be made repeatable as well. The stupidly easy ones like Tihark Orchard could be removed.

kedde · Jun 07, 2010, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbo32

That sounds fine in theory. But what it actually has ended up being is this - a way for serious PvP'ers to make huge amounts of cash by gouging other players on equipment packs, tomes, etc. They are able to do this just by playing the formats that they normally play *anyway*. There's no drawback that I can see - they don't have to spend 20 minutes or more trekking to the arse-end of nowhere to reach a boss like Rotscale. The rewards come from normal play. The massive amounts of extra faction that can be gained from ZCombat is an extra bonus. (As an example, the GvG zcombat gives 1500g, 9k faction and 50 zcoins for winning one match. Ridiculous).

It's my opinion that the Z mission and bounties should be made repeatable as well. The stupidly easy ones like Tihark Orchard could be removed.

While the repeating can definitely be argued, the main difference is that you actually need to find 15 other people who play at the same time, and you actually need to win a match of something which is challenging outside of lagspikes.

It isn't like playing pve doesn't already earn you much more than farming quests for keys could ever get you. The only rival to pve in terms of moneymaking is pulling a rawr and winning every single tournament month after month.

Reflect · Jun 07, 2010, 11:20 AM // 11:20

ZC = once per acc = GG

Deakon · Jun 07, 2010, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reflect

ZC = once per acc = GG

That would be the perfect solution. Or do away with the once-per-character dailies altogether. PvP only players intentionally pigeon-hole themselves. They shouldn't be given preferential treatment for that. If you're going to make the Z-Combat daily repeatable for a single PvP char then it should be repeatable for ALL chars.

On a side note... I'm really surprised that people aren't up-in-arms about PvPers exploiting the Zaishen daily using the wash, rinse, delete, repeat cheat. Kinda puts all the complaining about the PvE exploits in perspective and is a clue as to who complains the most. (I jest)

Kydd · Jun 07, 2010, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

That would be the perfect solution. Or do away with the once-per-character dailies altogether. PvP only players intentionally pigeon-hole themselves. They shouldn't be given preferential treatment for that. If you're going to make the Z-Combat daily repeatable for a single PvP char then it should be repeatable for ALL chars.

On a side note... I'm really surprised that people aren't up-in-arms about PvPers exploiting the Zaishen daily using the wash, rinse, delete, repeat cheat. Kinda puts all the complaining about the PvE exploits in perspective and is a clue as to who complains the most. (I jest)

You realize you can re roll the z-combat on pve characters as well right?

Also I would not consider playing the format you enjoy pigeon holing.

Deakon · Jun 07, 2010, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kydd

You realize you can re roll the z-combat on pve characters as well right?

Yep... But you can't just zone right back to the temple on a re-rolled PvE character like you can with a PvP char. You can't just load armor sets on PvE chars like you can on PvP chars. You can't just load a build on a fresh PvE char like you can on a PvP char. So I fail to see the point you're trying to make.

What happened to all the "fair and balanced" talk from the PvP crowd on this subject? Just because you choose to play PvP only characters shouldn't give you benefits over other players. If it's allowed by Anet, I wouldn't consider it cheating but it's definitely a potential for exploitation and something that I wouldn't think Anet would condone.

Honestly... do you think it's fair to nerf PvE ecto farming permasins (just an example... not condoning) but allow free reign to PvP chars to repeat combat dailies to basically farm zkeys? (which I see being traded for ecto constantly) Really?

Now I know why so many PvP only players were upset about the permasins... they were horning in on their lucrative ecto biz. (I jest)

Kydd · Jun 07, 2010, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

Yep... But you can't just zone right back to the temple on a re-rolled PvE character like you can with a PvP char. You can't just load armor sets on PvE chars like you can on PvP chars. You can't just load a build on a fresh PvE char like you can on a PvP char. So I fail to see the point you're trying to make.

What happened to all the "fair and balanced" talk from the PvP crowd on this subject? Just because you choose to play PvP only characters shouldn't give you benefits over other players. If it's allowed by Anet, I wouldn't consider it cheating but it's definitely a potential for exploitation and something that I wouldn't think Anet would condone.

Honestly... do you think it's fair to nerf PvE ecto farming permasins (just an example... not condoning) but allow free reign to PvP chars to repeat combat dailies to basically farm zkeys? (which I see being traded for ecto constantly) Really?

Now I know why so many PvP only players were upset about the permasins... they were horning in on their lucrative ecto biz. (I jest)

Just change districts on your pve character after you accept the reward and you can get teh z-combat again. You don't have to create a new pve character to get the quest again. Feel free to farm zkeys with the rest of us and see if you make more money doing that or clearing UW in 20 minutes.

Deakon · Jun 07, 2010, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kydd

Just change districts on your pve character after you accept the reward and you can get teh z-combat again. You don't have to create a new pve character to get the quest again. Feel free to farm zkeys with the rest of us and see if you make more money doing that or clearing UW in 20 minutes.

I've never been on an UW speed clear. You can't rezone on a PvP char and retake the combat daily? If not, then I will argue against myself because that wouldn't be fair towards PvP only players.

Kydd · Jun 07, 2010, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

I've never been on an UW speed clear. You can't rezone on a PvP char and retake the combat daily? If not, then I will argue against myself because that wouldn't be fair towards PvP only players.

You CAN rezone on a pvp char and retake the combat.
You CAN rezone on a pve char and retake the combat.

Shadowhaze · Jun 07, 2010, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbo32

That sounds fine in theory. But what it actually has ended up being is this - a way for serious PvP'ers to make huge amounts of cash by gouging other players on equipment packs, tomes, etc. They are able to do this just by playing the formats that they normally play *anyway*. There's no drawback that I can see - they don't have to spend 20 minutes or more trekking to the arse-end of nowhere to reach a boss like Rotscale. The rewards come from normal play. The massive amounts of extra faction that can be gained from ZCombat is an extra bonus. (As an example, the GvG zcombat gives 1500g, 9k faction and 50 zcoins for winning one match. Ridiculous).

It's my opinion that the Z mission and bounties should be made repeatable as well. The stupidly easy ones like Tihark Orchard could be removed.

I'm more of this mindset.

And chances are if they already play those pvp formats, they'll have no long waits in setting up teams like say a pver wanting to get into it would.

*shrugs*

Missmelady · Jun 07, 2010, 03:28 PM // 15:28

From what I understand was the deletion and creation of hundreds of characters every 10 min or so was actually causing mass server errors and major lag across all of guildwars. Once they made the ZC repetable this lag substationally decreased across all of gw. Just what I understood from part of the reasoning behind it.

Quail Stomp · Jun 07, 2010, 04:00 PM // 16:00

No one is stopping pve players from doing the ZC, just themselves. Why complain about it? The rewards are about right for most ZC since pvp can be a bit harder than pve. Pvp players dont make as much gold as pve players so anything that gets them closer money wise is a good thing.

Missmelady · Jun 07, 2010, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quail Stomp

No one is stopping pve players from doing the ZC, just themselves. Why complain about it? The rewards are about right for most ZC since pvp can be a bit harder than pve. Pvp players dont make as much gold as pve players so anything that gets them closer money wise is a good thing.

Well in all acuality a majority of pvp players do not make as much as pvers but the high end pvpers do make more then pvers. Winning gvg monthly nets u I think 3500 or 2500 reward points and figure its 1k per point so roughly 2 mil u win.

Granted most pvpers do not make anywhere near this amount.

During wintersday and the redux with the snowball at's I was making 500+k every turny with 3 turnies a day. I was making 1.5 mil a day just playing snowballs. So therefore to compare the amount of money one makes in pve and pvp are completely irrevelant. If you are a good pvper you can make loads more then someone that pve's unless they are hella good powertraders.

snaek · Jun 07, 2010, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missmelady

If you are a good pvper you can make loads more then someone that pve's unless they are hella good powertraders.

was gonna mention powertraders, until you just did at the very end of your post. you shouldn't compare high-end tourney pvpr's to a common farmer, you should compare them to the high-end powertrader. i think a pve farmer would be more equivalent to an ha fame farmer.

besides, you do realize that the snowball tournies happen only twice (iirc?) a year, right? so while sure, you made 1.5million per day over the event, thats gotta make up for the slack of what you'll make throughout the rest of the year. same concept applies to the monthly mat, albeit on a smaller scale.

The Drunkard · Jun 07, 2010, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quail Stomp

No one is stopping pve players from doing the ZC, just themselves. Why complain about it? The rewards are about right for most ZC since pvp can be a bit harder than pve.

The issue concerns whether or not it's fair that pure pvpers have access to repeatable quests whereas pure pvers don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quail Stomp

Pvp players dont make as much gold as pve players so anything that gets them closer money wise is a good thing.

You'd be surprised by how much money pvpers can make because of the ZC quests. Why do you think PVP has a huge bot problem in the first place?

Lishy · Jun 07, 2010, 07:21 PM // 19:21

And from what I've seen, most of those bots have been killed ^

snaek · Jun 07, 2010, 07:25 PM // 19:25

^not to mention pvp bots existed before zq was even created.

Swahnee · Jun 07, 2010, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

The issue concerns whether or not it's fair that pure pvpers have access to repeatable quests whereas pure pvers don't.

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Zaishen_Combat

Quote:

Like the other Zaishen Challenge Quests, you can only have 3 Zaishen Combat quests active in your Quest Log at any time. Unlike the others, however, you can repeat Zaishen Combat quests as often as you like while they are available. (As with all repeatable quests, after accepting the reward, you must re-zone before the signpost will offer the quest again.)

What are these repeatable quests you are talking about? Zaishen combat is repeatable for both pure PvPers and pure PvErs.

dancing gnome · Jun 07, 2010, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

I was just curious to the logic behind ZC being repeatable? Is it an attempt by Anet to quell the PvPer's constant whining? Is it over farmed? What would be some options/reasons to change it? Should PvE have an equivelent....maybe repeatable WiK Asassination for example?

While I think if the PvE ones can't be repeated the PvP ones shouldn't either, there are a few reasons the PvP one is able to be repeated while PvE is limited.

There is only one PvP quest whereas there are two PvE quests.
It is more time consuming to complete a PvP quest than a PvE quest. PvP puts you up against other players who can usually not be beaten using the same broken mechanics and AI abuse that PvE uses. The rewards also require completion several times, increasing time taken.

As much as I'd like to pretend the above are the reasons why it's repeatable, the simple reality is because players can delete and simply remake a PvP character to refresh the quest quota, the only way to make it truly not repeatable would be to limit the quest to once a day per account like Nicholas in pre-searing. I'm guessing the Live Team decided that allowing unlimited repeats was "more fair" than allowing only once a day.

It would be too easily exploited to allow PvE unlimited Z Quest farming.

Many PvE quests are easily farmable in short periods of time. An example of a broken PvE quest would be Imperial Sanctum. It takes less than 3 minutes to beat him in hard mode and the reward is 150 Z Coins and 1 platinum. A single day of this being repeatable would do massive damage to the economy.

As much as I'd love to see repeatable Z Quests for PvE, for the above reason I don't think we ever will.

I think superior alternatives to the current situation would be:

Increase the number of Bounties offered from 1 to 3. This would give players more than one bounty to grind those coins and prevent "repeatable easy farm" abuse.
Decrease the Z Bounty rotation time. Instead of a new bounty every 24 hours, a new bounty every 6 hours would give players more to do.
Offer a bounty on every boss in a certain zone, requiring more time for completion but greater reward.
Add two new bounties. A daily dungeon bounty and a daily vanquish bounty. They would fill gaps in the current system helping players to complete specific content with groups.

I think all these suggestions are vastly superior to the current boss bounty system.